Matthew Nordmann CFP®️ AIF®️
Partner/Financial Advisor
Matthew Nordmann has worked in the financial services industry for more than 25 years. He co-founded Morrison Nordmann and Associates in 2001 out of a desire to help clients build an amazing life of significance and plan the rest of their lives. He is a graduate of The George Washington University. He lives in Dewitt, Michigan with his wife Sherri and is the proud father of two daughters.
Scott Morrison
Partner/Financial Advisor
Scott Morrison has worked in the financial services industry for more than 25 years. He co-founded Morrison Nordmann and Associates in 2001 with the goal of helping clients achieve their dreams while working together as a true team. He lives in Grand Ledge, Michigan with his wife Tanya, and enjoys spending time with their married children and three grandchildren.
Podcasts
Path to Abundant Living
Welcome to Path to Abundant Living, where we address pertinent topics surrounding wealth management to help better position yourself, your family, and your business for success.
Listen as Scott Morrison and Matt Nordmann, Managing Partners of Morrison, Nordmann & Associates, tap into their wealth of financial experience and address various strategies and services they utilize for their clients.
So sit back, relax, and enjoy intriguing financial conversations that place you on path to abundant living and help you navigate the rest of your life.
Addressing Timely Topics and FAQ’s with Matt and Scott
Securities and investment advisory services offered through Osaic Wealth, Inc. member FINRA/SIPC. Osaic Wealth is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of Osaic Wealth.
In this insightful episode of Path To Abundant Living, hosts Matt Nordmann and Scott Morrison tackle some of the most pressing questions on everyone’s mind. From navigating market shifts to adapting financial strategies in unpredictable times, Matt and Scott share their expertise and candid insights on staying resilient and making informed decisions. They also respond to frequently asked questions, offering valuable perspectives to help listeners strengthen their path to financial well-being and abundant living. Whether you’re a seasoned investor or new to financial planning, this episode provides actionable advice for everyone aiming to secure a prosperous future.
Chapters:
0:00 – Introduction and overview on the topic of the day
3:00 – Reactive vs. Proactive to Politcal Shifts
5:20 – Election Time and Asset Allocation
10:30 – Diversification and Inflation
15:00 – What, Why and How
19:00 – Housing Markets and Looking Back
22:00 – Risk Tolerance and Goals with Apprehension
28:00 – Estate Tax Law
32:30 – Purchasing Power
35:10 – Historical Returns and Confidence
39:00 – Longevity and Income
43:00 – Legacy and Longevity
45:10 – How to get in touch with Matt and Scott for a deeper discussion on estate planning
46:20 – Closing remarks
Connect with Scott Morrison and Matt Nordmann:
October 31, 2024
August 27, 2024
July 24, 2024
June 18, 2024
March 13, 2024
February 12, 2024
December 11, 2023
Search Results placeholder
Videos
An Overview on Stress Testing
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . In the inaugural episode of Path to Abundant Living, we introduce you to Scott Morrison and Matt Nordmann, Managing Partners of Morrison, Nordmann & Associates, as they shed light on one of the most important financial conversations of all - the stress testing process. Stress tests are an integral part of Scott and Matt's wealth management process and they are designed to evaluate whether an...
What Makes a Good Wealth Manager Great?
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . In the second installment of Path to Abundant Living, Matt and Scott explore the key ingredient missing within most wealth managers and why affluent individuals should be demanding more out of their financial planning professional. It’s no secret that the affluent have access to the top financial professionals, who possess the highest levels of financial acumen attainable. However, in most cases, that isn’t enough to...
Preparing Heirs for Their Inheritance
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . In the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, Scott and Matt explore the complex nature surrounding inheritances. The big question surrounding this topic is: Are your heirs ready to deal with the wealth you may be planning to pass on to them someday? It's an unfortunate fact that inheritors often struggle with their windfalls in a way that can be hazardous to the overall...
Should You Be An Executor?
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . In the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, Scott and Matt address a new topic, surrounding the roles and responsibilities of an executor. When faced with this role, oftentimes, individuals are unaware of the full extent of responsibilities that accompany this role. Additionally, an executor faces an apparent level of personal risk when assuming this position. Listen as we dive into the duties of...
The Benefits of a Family Constitution
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . One of the biggest concerns facing affluent families is how to manage their wealth so that it achieves many goals. Their focus could be continuing to grow their wealth as it is transferred to younger generations, or aligning the use of that wealth with the values and ideals the family holds dear, or even protecting that wealth from creditors and others who might seek to...
Do You Have What it Takes to Create Significant Wealth?
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . In the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, Scott and Matt take a different approach to their typical conversations and address the best practices for generating a significant level of wealth. There's no denying that entrepreneurship is the most effective method of generating wealth, but it takes more then a great business plan. Matt and Scott identify and take a deep dive into the...
What is Wealth Planning, Really?
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . One mistake that can be so easy to make is focusing on one aspect of our financial life. In doing so, we can miss opportunities as well as take on unnecessary levels of risk. In the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, Matt and Scott explore methods to avoid that problem and address the full range of financial concerns through wealth planning. Ultimately, it...
Five Mistakes Affluent Homeowners Make
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . Affluent families and individuals often have an overwhelming amount of things on their plate, making it easy to overlook issues tied to one of their largest assets. Our homes are not only a massive asset, but they are also important to our financial security and personal sense of stability. In the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, Matt and Scott are identifying the five...
A Wall Around Your Wealth
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . Being wealthy and successful is great in many ways, but it can put a target on your back for frivolous lawsuits. Asset protection planning can help you better safeguard your wealth. In the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, Matt and Scott explore some foundational asset protection strategies that you may want to consider. Matt and Scott are routinely having these conversations with their...
It's Time to Review That Trust!
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . With so many changes in the world, and perhaps in your own family, a trust you’ve set up to achieve your financial goals could be out of date even if it’s just a few years old. On the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, we're examining how to size up the current status of a trust to see whether it's still on track, so...
Transferring Values, Not Just Wealth to Your Heirs
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . Many of us have thought about how to best transfer our wealth to our heirs someday. Unfortunately, parents and grandparents with significant assets don’t always spend enough time on passing along the values that helped them build, grow and maintain that wealth. On the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, Scott and Matt are examining the importance of transferring financial values to our kids...
Do You Know Your High-Net-Worth Personality Type?
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . We all have various personality traits. Some of us are introverts while others are extroverts, for example. However, did you know that you also have a wealth personality and it can have a big impact as you pursue your financial goals? On the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, Matt and Scott are diving deep into the various high-net-worth personality types that exist today....
Finding Advisors Who Are Truly Client-Centric
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . When advisors truly know their clients, as people and not just numbers on a paper, they can better help them achieve their financial and other goals. In the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, Matt and Scott are exploring the value associated with having advisors that are truly client-centric, as well as how you can identify if your current advisor takes a client-centric approach....
The Surprising Value of a Client Advisory Board
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . Business owners want to better understand their clients so they can serve them exceptionally well and grow their enterprise. And while surveys, market research and other tools can be key parts of that effort, there’s another smart marketing strategy that too many entrepreneurs overlook. On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we're diving into the surprising value of utilizing a client advisory board!...
Wealth Planning for Age 90, 100 and Beyond!
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . We’re living longer than ever these days! That means our wealth may need to see us through what could be an extremely lengthy retirement. This can sometimes be a double-edged swrod scenario. On the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, we’re exploring how an increasingly important aspect of wealth management, called longevity planning, can potentially help position our finances for the long haul. Timecodes:...
Turn Positive Thinking Into Focused Action
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . We all want to achieve our goals and help the people we care about most reach their objectives. However, we’re not always certain about the best way to make that happen! On the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, we’re examining how the idea of positive thinking, while helpful, can actually hold you back if you don’t augment it with a smart action plan....
From Owner to Consultant: Your "Retirement Career"
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . If you’re a business owner who decides to sell or transition the ownership of your business, do you know what your next move will be? For some entrepreneurs who want to stay part of the business world they know so well, becoming an independent consultant can be a new stage in their entrepreneurial lives. On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we’re taking...
Safeguarding Assets From an Ex-Spouse
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . While divorce rates in the U.S. have generally been falling for some time, the sad fact is that many marriages don’t work out. On this episode of Path to Abundant Living, we’re examining ideas and options for protecting financial assets in the event that a marriage, yours or that of a loved one, ends in divorce. Timecodes: 0:06 - Introduction and overview on the topic...
Smart Money Moves to Make While You're Still Mentally Sharp
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . As we age, many of us will experience cognitive decline, maybe minor, but perhaps major. On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we’re looking at some ways to potentially safeguard your assets from wealth-destroying mental money mistakes before that time comes. Here’s a look at how to do it! Timecodes: 0:06 - Introduction and overview on the topic of the day 1:38 -...
Here's How Successful People Set Goals for Themselves
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . There’s no shortage of goals that we want to achieve for ourselves, our loved ones, and even our communities. But defining meaningful goals and pursuing them intelligently is a big challenge for many of us. On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we’re looking at some ways we can develop a clear vision for our lives, translate that vision into actionable objectives, and...
Seven Steps to Powerful Professional Relationships
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . The people you know can play a big part in the amount of success you achieve in business and in life. But for contacts to be important and valuable to that success, you need to develop powerful relationships with them that get results for all involved. On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we’re exploring some key ways to make that happen! Timecodes:...
Traveling to a Life of Significance (Feat: Cindy Gonzalez)
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . You've worked so hard to achieve success and the wealth that comes along with it. For many people in this position, they look to travel as a means of enjoying that wealth and creating long-lasting memories for them and their families. On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, Matt and Scott are joined by Cindy Gonzalex, Owner & Designer at Theory of Travel,...
Legacy Planning for You and Your Family (Feat: Cindy Arledge)
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we're pleased to welcome Cindy Arledge to the show to discuss the increasingly popular topic of legacy planning! Cindy Arledge, MBA brings a fresh new approach to an age-old problem: how to transfer wealth without destroying your beneficiaries’ ambition and drive, and their relationships to each other. Motivated by the most painful experience of her life,...
Living Your Life On Target! (Feat: Chris and Matt Johnson)
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . While wealth is a primary focus on our podcast, we're taking a different approach today and examining the importance of health. Without a healthy lifestyle, your Path to Abundant Living could be quite short! On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we welcome Chris Johnson, Founder & CEO of On Target Living, and Matt Johnson, President of On Target Living, to discuss their...
Client Questions Answered!
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we're taking a different approach to our typical conversations. This time around, Matt and Scott are tackling some of the most pressing questions they've been receiving from their clients. As the financial landscape continues to evolve, it's crucial to stay informed and empowered to make well-informed decisions. Join Matt and Scott as they delve into the...
Seven Things You Should Do Right Now!
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . It's easy to drag your feet on making financial decisions. We're all guilty of it. However, indecision, or a lack of action, can be detrimental to your financial world and keep you from achieving the future goals you have in mind! On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we're addressing seven items you can be doing right now to reinforce your financial world...
Matt Nordmann's MyStory
Scott Morrison appears on MyStory
The Power of Body Language and Nonverbal Communication with Joe Navarro
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . In a world where words often fall short, understanding the subtle art of nonverbal communication can be a game-changer. From the tilt of a head to the twitches of a hand, our body language reveals more about our thoughts and emotions than we might realize. On the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, we welcome Joe Navarro renowned author, speaker, and former FBI agent,...
Fly Into the Wind! (Feat: Lt. Col. Dan Rooney)
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . It all began with Lieutenant Col. Dan Rooney’s flight home from his second tour of duty in Iraq. An F-16 fighter pilot in the Oklahoma Air National Guard, he became painfully aware of the realities families face when a loved one in uniform is fallen or disabled. Since that night, Lt Col Rooney has committed his life to rallying patriotic Americans and meeting sacrifice with...
The Challenges of Real Estate in 2023 with Brooks Warner
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . The real estate market has been rapidly changing over the last few years, and rising interest rates are making an impact on home purchases at large! On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we're thrilled to welcome Brooks Warner, Co-Owner of the Mitten Home Team, to unpack a variety of pressing real estate questions, best practices when buying a home, and what you...
The Benefits of Concierge Medicine with Dr. Daniel Carlin
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we unravel the transformative world of Concierge Medicine with none other than Dr. Dan Carlin, the visionary Founder & CEO of World Clinic. Concierge Medicine, a paradigm shift in healthcare delivery, offers patients personalized, unhurried, and unparalleled access to their healthcare providers. Dr. Carlin, a trailblazer in this field, shares his invaluable insights and experiences, shedding...
Charis Your Life and Be Fulfilled! (Feat: Charis Santillie)
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . Join us in this enlightening episode as we sit down with Charis Santille, founder of Charis Your Life, a renowned organization dedicated to helping individuals achieve balance in their lives. In this thought-provoking conversation, Charis shares her insights and practical tips on how to cultivate a harmonious and well-rounded life in the midst of today's fast-paced world. Discover the importance of creating a balance between...
Know Your Numbers! (Feat: Chris Johnson)
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . On the latest episode of Path to Abundant Living, we sit down with the visionary Chris Johnson, Founder of On Target Living, to delve deep into the world of holistic well-being. Join us as we explore the crucial importance of living a healthy lifestyle and discover how Chris's organization is revolutionizing the way people approach their well-being. Chris Johnson is not just a health expert;...
Cybersecurity Considerations From an Expert with Cheyenne Harden
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . On the latest installment of Path to Abundant Living, we delve into the crucial realm of cybersecurity with none other than Cheyenne Harden, the visionary Owner & CEO of Cyber Protect LLC. With the digital landscape evolving at an unprecedented pace, the importance of cybersecurity has become more paramount than ever before. Join us as we sit down with Cheyenne to unravel the complexities of...
Protecting Your Legacy: The Importance of Estate Planning with Jack Weyers
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . Estate planning isn't just about distributing assets; it's about ensuring your legacy lives on according to your wishes. Joined by Jack Weyers, Estate Planning Attorney at Family and Elder Law of Mid-Michigan, we discuss the fundamental components of estate planning, from drafting wills and trusts to designating beneficiaries and establishing healthcare directives. Our guest sheds light on the common misconceptions surrounding estate planning and highlight...
Caddy for a Cure with Russ Holden
Securities and investment advisory services offered through *Osaic Wealth, Inc* . member FINRA/SIPC. *Osaic Wealth* is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of *Osaic Wealth* . A good financial planner plans your future for you. A great financial planner guides you with careful experience to the right decisions for you. This guidance shouldn't be concrete. It should be ever evolving based on the challenge in front of you. Just like a caddy advising their player on a challenging hole, so does a great financial planner advise their client. On today's episode,...
Separately Managed Accounts and Tax Loss Harvesting
Securities and investment advisory services offered through Osaic Wealth, Inc. member FINRA/SIPC. Osaic Wealth is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of Osaic Wealth. When making investment decisions, it can be easy to simply see the numbers and what's right in front of you. A great team of advisors will expand your visions to see all the potential and unexpected savings that could be made if your accounts are setup for success in the time frame you need them to deliver by. Tax loss harvesting is one of these unexpected methods...
The Importance of Having a Family Brand with Melissa Smith
Securities and investment advisory services offered through Osaic Wealth, Inc. member FINRA/SIPC. Osaic Wealth is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of Osaic Wealth. Join Matt and Scott as they chat with Melissa Smith, founder of Family Brand. Learn how to transform family cultures and create relationships that last and grow together. Learn how the to harness values and ingrain them in your family for generations to come. This and more on this episode of Path to Abundant Living. Enjoy! Chapters: 0:00 - Introduction and overview on the topic of the...
Habits of The Top 1%: Timeless Lessons Learned From Sports Greatest Champions with Dr. Rick Jensen
Matt and Scott welcome you back to another exciting episode of Path to Abundant Living. On this episode, we are joined by performance coach and sports psychologist, Dr. Rick Jensen. As a best selling author, public speaker, and expert coaching more than 30 grand slam championships, Dr. Rick has a wide breadth of transferable knowledge ready to let loose. This and more on this episode of Path to Abundant Living. Enjoy! Chapters: 0:00 - Introduction and overview on the topic of the day 3:05 - Welcoming Dr. Rick Jensen 5:40 - Deliberate Practice 11:00 - Having The Right Want 16:00...
Addressing Timely Topics and FAQ's with Matt and Scott
Securities and investment advisory services offered through Osaic Wealth, Inc. member FINRA/SIPC. Osaic Wealth is separately owned and other entities and/or marketing names, products or services referenced here are independent of Osaic Wealth. In this insightful episode of Path To Abundant Living, hosts Matt Nordmann and Scott Morrison tackle some of the most pressing questions on everyone’s mind. From navigating market shifts to adapting financial strategies in unpredictable times, Matt and Scott share their expertise and candid insights on staying resilient and making informed decisions. They also respond to frequently asked questions, offering valuable perspectives to help listeners strengthen their...